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Dathimithedeyul
Posts: 18
(@dathimithedeyul)
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Regarding "ran," whose meaning is to be extended to a verb meaning to enter text as though on a typewriter.

It must be observed that languages are retentive; they do not simply discard words that were once useful once they become less so; it generally takes generations until there are so few people who know a word that it is essentially a dead word.

On the other hand, extending a word's meaning to cover related concepts is common and straightforward among human languages. Extending the meaning of the Láadan word "ran" (typewriter) to also mean "to type; to enter text as though using a typewriter" would be a perfectly acceptable change. The only danger--as in the same situation among speakers of natural languages--would be someone of an earlier generation who is unfamiliar with the extension failing to understand.

==========================

Regarding "raran" (to make a typographical error) [ra- (non) + ran (to type)]:

Positing the extension of "ran" to mean "to type", "raran" would mean "to non-type:" use a pen? a quill? a pencil or a crayon? refrain from writing at all?

I'd prefer a different prefix. Perhaps "dúuran" (try and fail to type) [dúu- (try and fail to VERB) + ran (to type)]? Or "búran" (type peculiarly or in a way that's difficult to understand) [bú (to be odd/perverse/hard to understand) + ran (to type)]?

Wil sha,
Amberwind

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Nara
 Nara
(@nara)
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@dathimithedeyul Ra is used to mean mis- at least twice that I found, like rahéeda (mistranslate), rahen (misunderstand), but I do suppose the meaning might not be clear off the bat since it's also used in the non- way for a lot of otherwords. Búran makes sense to me.

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Dathimithedeyul
Posts: 18
(@dathimithedeyul)
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Joined: 2 months ago

Regarding

Rawidadi - lit. non-carry speech or setting-down speech - might be translated as to confess, not in a criminal sense, but an un-burdening of the heart. The sort of un-burdening speech that happens in women's circles and consciousness-raising groups, with very initimate friends, or perhaps with a therapist, when it is a relief or revelation to put that thing into words finally. Example: Bíi eril rawidadi be óoletham bethodi eril loláad be lobima thomayahéth wa. (She confessed to her coven that she had been feeling depressed recently.)

===================

I love the construction of "put-it-down + speak" for this meaning.

However, I'm not sure about "rawida" for "to put down". To my mind, "rawida" means to non-carry, either by never picking it up in the first place or by some other means.

Over the past several months I've been casting about for a form for just this concept, so your proposal is timely for me.

What if we instead use "háda" (to drop/let fall) for "to put down"? That would give "hádadi" for your meaning.

Alternatively, we could form a word transparently related to "háda" (to drop) for "to put down." Perhaps "háada"? If accepted, this would give "háadadi" for your meaning.

BTW, full marks for the embedding; nicely done. One note: the Goal Case suffix has been regularized to "-dim" by the second generation.

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Nara
 Nara
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@dathimithedeyul I like the háada/háadadi suggestion!

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Dathimithedeyul
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Regarding

Ruleden - to cat-help - When someone wants to help or claims to be helping, but really they are getting in the way. If this is being done on purpose to be a nuisance, then it is rulheden. In English this is often conveyed by putting finger quotes around the word "help." Example sentences:
Bíili eril ruleden dóhibeyóo ásherídan letha budeth wa. (My little niece “helped” fold the clothes.)
Or
Bíi eril rulheden dóhéthe ebahid betho belideth wáa. (Her husband “helped” clean the house.)

=========================

This encoding has been proposed as "raden" [ra- (non) + den (to help)] though not yet approved. I must confess in my mind it has been better "háaden" [háa- (child) + den (to help)], evoking the "help" (especially in the kitchen) that parents put up with, both to teach and to create a feeling of usefulness and belonging in their offspring.

I am owned by two cats. Their "help" has never been directed toward me; I'm the monkey-slave (aka "bearer of thumbs"). It's my job to be of service to them; they are in no way interested in helping me to do anything, either ineptly or spitefully.

BTW, I'd have used háasherídan rather than ásherídan, since one really look for even "help" from an infant.

I'd want to really look at the dynamics of the relationship if my husband "helped" just to be a nuisance! Oy!

Wil sha,
Amberwind

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Nara
 Nara
(@nara)
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@dathimithedeyul I like háaden - that definitely fits. I was thinking of when my cats try to "help" me feed them by walking in front of my feet on the way to the food bowl, or "help" me study by laying on top of my papers 😉

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Dathimithedeyul
(@dathimithedeyul)
Joined: 2 months ago

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Posts: 18

@nara

Oh, yeah, or walking over the keyboard when I put it down for a second to get a cup of tea.... However, that arises, imo, not from spitefulness but rather from total disdain for any action of mine that doesn't lead to the immediate gratification of their needs/wants.

And háaden really doesn't lend itself to the pejorative aspect of "'helping' on purpose to be a nuisance". Perhaps keep "ruleden" for an intermediary "'helping' through disregard for whether the actions are, indeed, helpful" (some work on the exact wording of the English will be needed) and "rulheden" for "'helping' on purpose to be a nuisance"?

Wil sha,
Amberwind

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Dathimithedeyul
(@dathimithedeyul)
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Or perhaps "raden"  for the "on purpose to be a nuisance" meaning.

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Zhanahe
(@zhanahe)
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@dathimithedeyul

This reminds me of a phenomenon that happens to me sometimes-- I want to help, but I'm not sure how, so I end up standing somewhere and getting in the way anyway, and I was just trying to be helpful!  Or even the phenomenon where I'm not sure how to help and I ask, but by asking I become more of a nuisance because the person I want to help is busy and answering my request becomes just one more thing for them to do.  In the "doroledim" vibe, there could also be a word for the guilty feeling I get when I know I'm being a hinderance in my quest to help, and I'm not sure whether to ask anyway so I can help or just stay out of the way, and either way feels not adequate.

Wil sha,

Zhanáhe

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Nara
Posts: 8
 Nara
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(@nara)
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Joined: 1 month ago

A new one, pretty straightforward:

doólelol - finally being among one's community/family/etc. after a period of isolation. Sort of the flipside of doólelasholan.

As an introvert, doólelasholan is something I'm very familiar with, but I recently attended a friend's small, outdoor wedding and discovered I was just totally delighted to be in the communal presence of other human beings (even still maintaining social distance and masking etc.). I think this word will be very useful for all of us once COVID restrictions are lifted.

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